Help with equipment list

Hi Suehiko,

Tom here, I am the inventor and owner of Toms Tumble Trimmer. I have developed a bladeless dry Trimming machine that is not only very fast but extremely gentle on your buds. We do not use any blades or use any aggressive metals or materials with our machines. We are be becoming very popular since we have very reasonable prices on both our commercial machines and personal machines, not to mention our customers boast about how the end product is not discernible from hand trimmed. Please feel free to call me anytime. 818-590-1303. I am a Long time grower and would be happy to discuss all angles of your business. We could also have one of our reps demo our machines when your ready. Please check out our website Tomstumbletrimmer.com and google search all the great reviews we are getting under toms tumbler and Tomstumbletrimmer.

Best of luck with your new venture.

Thomas Bruggemann

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Jordan, good initiative to make Forum more interactive.

Best S

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IF you have the capital, look into a Waters or Apeks super-fluid super-critical CO2 extractor. CO2 is cleaner for extractions (some states even allow you to stamp “Solvent-Free” on packaging when CO2 is utilized for extraction) and has a greater acceptance among users both recreational and medical as a preferred means of isolating cannabinoids for combustion and consumption. There is a long-standing belief among users (especially medical patients) that the extracts produced by CO2 are “cleaner” than those that use a solvent in the hydrocarbon extraction process. CO2 further allows you to isolate different components found in the cannabis plant into separate fractions. You are able to fraction the fats, luteins, lipids, chlorophyll and other plant waxes into one vessel, the essential oils and cannabinoids into a second vessel, and the terpenes into a third vessel. This process is done through precise scientific equipment at very specific pressures and temperatures to further increase the efficiency of the extraction process.

For decades, hops growers have been using super critical extraction to extract essential oils from hops for use in beer brewing. Fun fact: humulus lupus (hops genus and species) is in the cannabaceae family, the same family as cannabis sativa; so from a taxonomy standpoint, the hops and cannabis plants are actually very close cousins. Many of the same extraction methods incorporated in the brewing industry have been borrowed by the always-evolving cannabis industry.

Another benefit of CO2 versus solvent (i.e. BHO) extraction is the mitigation of fire/explosion risk. Unlike butane, CO2 is not volatile when exposed to heat sources. CO2 also does not have the same ventilation requirements as do BHO labs. Though not entirely risk-free (liquid CO2 is VERY cold and stored under pressure, so there is some inherent risk if not handled properly), CO2 is safer for people to use to extract in closed spaces.

It has often been argued that CO2 extracts do not possess the same taste/terp profile as BHO extracts. While I can agree with that particular issue (having dabbed way more than my fair share of both BHO and CO2 extracts!), I can say the sense of CO2 extracts being “better for the body” is ever-present. I look at buying CO2 kind of like buying “organic”: you know that “organic” is produced in a cleaner fashion, “organic” is better for your body, and, maybe most importantly, “organic” makes you feel good inside. Consumers will ultimately dictate their extract preference, but I think the industry will move in the direction of CO2 extracts. Also, in the future, governmental regulatory agencies may force the hand of the industry and require only solvent-free extractions. Time will tell on this issue…

I feel like I chimed in my two cents here on equipment. Oh yeah, physical footprint: a Waters lab with two four-pound material chambers will take up a whole 10 x 10 room when fully assembled, and that is just the extractor itself, you need you leave room for rotary evaporators, vacuum ovens, centrifuges, freezers, and stainless steel prep tables for packaging. Also I recommend you plan accordingly and leave yourself some additional space to scale in the future.

Good luck!

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Awesome!

Thank you!!!

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What do you think of the Eden CO2 extraction?

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If you’re growing your own, CIS can help you design an irrigation system to simplify/automate the irrigation and feeding process. We’re a family business that’s been in the irrigation industry for over 35 years. We’ll design the system for you free of charge, and we have over 600 items from a variety of top manufacturers in stock and ready to ship.

As for manufacturer specifics, it’s not a huge deal for drip irrigation. Each manufacturer has strong products and weak products depending on how you are evaluating them. The most important part of an irrigation system is making sure it’s designed correctly, as many of the items offered by the various manufacturers are essentially the same product with some slight variation. When we design a system we make sure to pick the best manufacturer for any given product in your design to make sure you’ve got the highest quality across the board.

I can’t give you recommendations on exact products without knowing more about how you plan to grow (pots/ beds, growing medium, nutrient mix, etc), but these are all things we’d go over if you’d like us to design a system for you.

Feel free to DM me if you have any further questions about irrigation :slight_smile:

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I am not familiar with Eden, but based on the link you provided, they look fairly legit. These CO2 extractor companies tend to be very accommodating when it comes to pricing, delivery, setup, troubleshooting and maintenance. I would call every one of them up and ask a litany of questions. They will be there to help you when you need it. I know @Apeks_Supercritical is here on GNET. Reach out to Tara with some questions.

When my previous employer purchased our Waters lab, the crew from Waters flew out from the Bay Area to set up the machine and show us how to operate it. When we blew a seal on the machine (a fail safe mechanism built in to preserve the major components of the system from pressure), the company was quick to help and over-nighted us a new bag of seals so production wasn’t hindered for more than a few hours.

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That’s absolutely right - most legitimate CO2 extractor companies stand by their systems and are good with customer support. Eden, Waters and Apeks (us!) are all large companies, who have been around for a while, who have teams of customer support people. With Apeks systems, training is included in the purchase. One of our service engineers comes to your facility to train you/your team of operators - typically, it’s about a half-day. If anything goes wrong with a system, we can usually trouble shoot online (your system is hooked up to the Internet, and our engineers can actually look at your screen to see what’s going on). Also, there’s phone support and in person support.

The key is asking questions. Phone all the CO2 extraction manufacturers and ask them every question you can think of, until you have the information you need. I’d be happy to answer questions that anyone has!

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I think you forgot the add Tamisium Extractors. It is funny how many times Tamisium is over looked when in fact all those butane systems you mentioned are low cost derivatives of a Tamisium that came to be after we fired an employee for suspected arson in 2007. Fire was in 2005. Shortly after that in 2011 Skunk pharm appeared online offering a Bill of Materials bragging about it as a cheap clamp together alternative to a Tamisium extractor with no understanding at all about performance or the reasons the design was the way it was which led everyone to losing all performance as he shared it. It was ok at the time because the industry had not yet evolved to understand the loss yet.
All systems in the industry today can be traced back to those systems.
I know you are looking for product suggestions but a little history may help you weed out the ones to avoid. Now you need to know why.
Tamisium is a passive process that allows you to completely remove all the butane without any pumps or ovens. 100% recovery is achieved due to understanding a concept called common equilibrium which is the single reason why the design was created. This allows you to operate the extraction and full solvent recovery processes without pumps. It was out experience that all pumps leak and fail and will invoke a Div 1 classification which only protects the component manufacturers from being sued but not the burned victim that drops a metal part creating a spark.
Tamisium systems also use a patented formula via an automated or manual system to run a standardized production process. Tamisium holds the patents on the extractors mentioned and the evolution of those processes. A formula with 7 inputs that offers a wide degree of control of those inputs allows you to create formulas for extracting as you move from industry to industry and strain to strain.

Best Value Vacs is bottom of the list greatly funded but pretty much uses the Skunk Pharm BOM shared in 2011 that nearly ever extractor manufacturer uses. There are so many copies of copies of that BOM that everyone thinks they are different and nobody knows where they are traced back to.
Just type skunk pharm tamisium on google or go to this link.

I sold the first passive system in 2009 which was followed by what my employee shared after firing him in 2007 or what Skunk Pharm shared in 2011. As you can deduce my employee shared my pre passive designs.
Precision Bhogart although larger companies all use so called closed systems stemming from this BOM or my employee as well that ironically leak solvent during the whole operation. Thats why I never sold them or filed for a patent on them. Sounds a little contradictory to logic. How any leaking systems get approved is a mystery but it is forcing all those operators to comply with a Division 1 requirement giving the industry a bad name. Class 1 Division 1 is a bandaid to solve a leaking problem but does not save the guys in the lab in the event of an accident. More of a warning that when one occurs he will burn because Div 1 means solvent is present in the room at all times during normal operation. They can say may be in the room but in these cases it is in the room. Division 2 means can be but not likely.
I invented the closed loop process in 2001 and never submitted one for review because states would not ever allow it due to the fact that they leak. The pumps are not class 1 div 1 or 2 rated and cannot be ASME coded. Once the solvent leaves the protected confines of the rated and approved closed system under the codes invoked it enters the pump which is not rated or coded under the invoked codes. That is now an open system. Now you see them all over the place and the one system that is truly closed you dont see much anymore.
IE dont choose a system based on popularity. Hire a good consultant that knows the history and all the pros and cons of all the systems and get educated. There is a single best system out there.

The pre extraction, extraction and post processing is not complicated. The companies complicate it to appear that way in the name of business but a good consultant should be able to define a little history of how this all evolved and why and lead you into a path that puts you in a good place in the future. Such as safer, standardized production offering a monograph of the process for medicinal and recreational production. A written or digital record of how a product is made will be the next big evolutionary phase of the industry. In that learning phase there will again be oversight, errors and a little corruption UNLESS a sound process is in place already that can be utilized.

ISOLATION
In the end you will learn that all these molecules you extract are physical creations with about 8 physical attributes that allow you to extract them out and isolate them in a post process. Such as size, weight, polarity, boiling point, solids or liquids, condensing points and color for liqht spectrum ip. You will use a process that capitalizes on those differences to move them away from each other while in a liquid or solid state. You will also learn that the pre extraction process such as drying for CO2 can ruin some of these molecular structures or just evaporate them away and you will learn extracting wet material with CO2 because CO2 reacts with water to create carbonic acid can turn an extraction rancid. Most importantly you should know that a system allowing you to set controls during extraction can prevent a lot of this. During pre extraction like when drying and grinding and of course during post processing too but it is when you move from solid phase plant matter to liquid phase that the fun really begins and that is the time we can stand above the rest. It is not until you get into liquid phase post processing that you can have at your disposal much more than what the industry has figured out how to use today. Dont even hear much about AB washes or centrifuge. AB washes deal with altering polarity to separate and then changing the polarity back again. After all the fact that your waste and target have the same polarity is what presents the challenge in this industry. It only stands to reason that being able to change one of their polarities opens up a solution. If only one changes. Centrifuge deals with using the molecular weight differences to isolate. Everyone wants to use cold winterizing or hot distillation. Inefficient and destructive but easy and at the time they did not understand what I was I was saying then.
Although liquid phase isolation is great it is hard as hell if the product coming out of the extractor is not exactly the same product every time it is extracted. Extraction is where it all really starts. Problems during pre extraction or easily prevented and also can be formulated.

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Decontamination equipment can help new grows stay compliant as microbial testing continues to tighten.

josh@willowindustries.com

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Packaging is important. We have a lot of options available and exceeds regulatory requirements.

  • Quick fill
  • Tamper evident
  • Smell proof
  • Child Resistant
  • Secure
  • Transparent/Opaque
  • Custom options, designs, packaging, and printing

This form will help walk you through most of the options. It includes a link to an informative .pdf file. If you fill out the form, we’ll have someone contact you to discuss solutions that can meet your needs.

https://goo.gl/forms/bVmwqG3yxMVs1xLA2

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gotta have sasquash

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Any more advice on this thread?

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Looks like this post was a few months old before I found it, But if you are still setting up a Lab, I would be happy to help you fill it with the proper equipment.

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@suehiko I know i’m a little late to the game, but my company manufactures & lays out material handling equipment in Cannabis grow facilities. We’ve worked with some of the largest growers in the world and gained our experience over years of laying out pharma grade labs, and cleanrooms.

Check out our cannabis solutions page and let me know if you have and questions.

https://www.metro.com/cannabis-solutions

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CO2Meter provides a variety of agriculture products which include grow control, co2 safety monitors and solenoid valves for growers and cultivators nationwide. Check out their product showcase, here.

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Please give me a call or look at my website.
We are a supplier of winterized filtration, rotovaps, and distillation equipment.

888-792-3380
Blazelabsolutions.com

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If you need help with personal protective equipment (PPE) in the area of disposable gloves, I have a large list of competitive distributors who sell our Sempermed line. Feel free to reach out. danielle.woods@sempermedusa.com.

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Or both? They might need to consider quarantine practices if both.

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I would highly recommend employing a Director of Extraction and if not full time - as consultancy. I may be able to align you with someone if no one on the forum has privately messaged you offering such a service.

I would say that [given your desire to have multiple products under one roof] your best bet would be to use both Co2 and Ethanol extraction methods. They have overlap in their abilities and will provide a nice full spectrum of products for the purpose of wholesale and retail. This way, products requested for a specific purpose by the market can be met [even by namesake - even if they overlap in application]. I would divide the production of either by market demand and the variance in yield between them.

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