Humidity Packs

[RemoNutrients]

This is not meant to slander any products or companies, rather get an idea of what’s going on.

Recently a study was conducted by one of Boveda’s competitors indicating that Boveda Humidity Packs off-gas acetone gas.

www.jamesdawson.com/blog/index.php?mode=post&id=27

This study seems shady as f*** (because of the clear conflict of interest that the PhD had with their competition) but I’d be interested to know some more information if anyone specializes in chemistry.

• How much acetone is considered non-toxic and does this fall in the range of acceptable limits? (Acetone is found in various quantities in plants and animals)

• Does acetone absorb into plant tissue if it’s present in an anaerobic environment?

• Does anyone have any more information regarding this study?

I’ve used, and use these packs in my curing jars. The logical option would be to stop using these products but this study didn’t talk about reason for the stdy, the implications behind the results, or the acceptable limits. I’m prepared to stop using them, but I also feel like it’s kinda of a dick move if it’s just a competitor trying to spew libel.

Thoughts?

[RemoNutrients]

I forgot to mention…

The test indicated acetone levels in 2 tests to be around 9 ug/L. To put this in perspective, this equals 0.00965 PPM.

[chrishelm]

Hi RemoNutrients,
Please let me know what you find out. I build automated cannabis packaging machines and I have had a couple customers ask for us to put the humidity packs into their containers for them in an automated fashion. We can do it and have. I just want to keep up with what’s going on.
I to have competitors making false statements about our products. We have invited many potential customers to our factory to show off our machines and prove it. I feel for Boveda.
Chris
Meridian Merchandising

[Hunter]

To answer your first question:

http://www.inchem.org/documents/sids/sids/67641.pdf – Toxicity study on Acetone

Clinical case studies, controlled human volunteer studies, animal research, and occupational field evaluations all indicate that the NOAEL for this effect is 2375 mg/m3 or greater.

In other words, a few micrograms (literally 1/1000th of a mg) will not affect nor will it harm humans.

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To answer your second question:

http://www.creaf.uab.es/Global-Ecology/Pdfs_UEG/Seco-oxVOCs_AE_2007.pdf – Study on several VOCs with regards to Acetone

In direct plant emission measurements (Table 3), Janson and de Serves (2001) found acetone to be the main light carbonyl emitted by both Scots pines (Pinus sylvestris), accounting for between 64% and 94% of the carbon mass of emissions, and Norway spruce (Picea abies), with more than 80% of CH3COCH3 among its emitted carbonyls

In fact, many plants make acetone without it being in the soil. Most of the time it is released into the air and does not pose a problem. Trimming alfalfa caused the alfalfa to release even more acetone than it normally does, too.

Also, pine trees emit more acetone than the tested Boveda pack.

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To your third question:

I don’t have any more information of the study, but if you read the text…

One Boveda 62% RH sachet and one Integra Boost 62% RH sachet was removed from its clear packaging and placed in separate five liter foil faced gas sampling bag equipped with a septum sampling port. The bags were then sealed. A third Control bag was treated in a similar manner Two hundred milliliters of outside air was introduced to each bag

There’s not enough sampling going on here to make any kind of serious statistical claim of proof that one company’s desiccants are better than another. They literally only tested one sachet against another. This could be used as evidence to conduct a larger scale study, but right now, it’s not that meaningful.

[RemoNutrients]

Thanks for the efforts.

This is precisely what I thought. I deal with fertilizers and as you can imagine, there are a lot of clinical tests required to pass registration requirements.

It was my understanding that acetone is an organic byproduct of a metabolic system (at least based on what I learned getting my degree) and after attending a trade show over the weekend, this popped up as the “hey did you hear about this” topic of the show. Just because arsenic is found in apple seeds, doesn’t mean that accidentally eating an apple seed is going to have long standing effects on your health.

I’m a little off-put by this. If I was boveda, I would sue this company for libel just based on the fact that it wasn’t an independent study (Desicare paid for the study), and they name dropped Bovida instead of listing it as a “competitor’s” product.

Sad to say this is what bad business looks like…

[Hunter]

Lots of things contain nasties to humans:

• Almonds have trace amounts of cyanide.
• Castor beans contain ricin.
• As you mentioned, apple seeds have arsenic.
• Most fish have elevated mercury levels.

As the saying goes “The dose makes the poison.”

[1budking]

Disclaimer: LIMITED INVESTIGATION
Findings: POSSIBLE BIAS STUDY FROM BIAS SOURCE, and the “Michael S. Bonner, Ph.D.” DOES NOT HAVE MEDICAL LICENSE [SEARCHED MASSACHUSETTS, AND MISSISSIPPI].

So, what I’ve found is that this Dr. Doesn’t exist. Go ahead and google his name.
The facility that this study was supposedly done at is:

Bonner Analytical Testing Co.
2703 Oak Grove Road, Hattiesburg, MS 39402
Phone No.: 601-264-9965 Fax No.: 601-268-7084
(WE WILL NOT COMMENT ON THE FACILITY, BUT USE GOOGLE MAPS TO SEE THE OUTSIDE OF THIS RESEARCH FACILITY)

Issues with the research:

1. Introduction of random outside air IS A CONTAMINANT! “Two hundred milliliters of outside air was introduced to each bag” [https://www.jamesdawson.com/pdf/boveda-integra-boner-labs-gassing-2017.pdf]
2. In SIX hours the results of acetone gas 9.8 micro-grams, and after 6x3= EIGHTEEN hours the results of acetone gas was 13.11 micro-grams. [you guys to the math]. *So, after the initial six hours, the acetone gas is let off at 1 micro-gram every six hours.

Conclusion:
Contaminated or Fraudulent results due to HUMAN ERROR or DELIBERATE CONTAMINATION.

[RemoNutrients]

Thanks for all the intel @1budking.

I know some pretty influential people who have jumped on this train without facts and it can end up costing a company a lot of money…

[4CornersCannabis]

Are there any good alternatives?

[Hunter]

The goal with humidity packs is to prevent pathogens from forming colonies and keep packaged goods fresh.

If you want to achieve a similar goal without modifying humidity, you could try nitrogen packaging, which is environmentally friendly and safe for humans.

[4CornersCannabis]

I’m actually in the market for a nitrogen packer at the moment. I’m really looking for something to control humidity until I can get everything nitrogen packed. I will be harvesting somewhere around a 1,000 lbs in a matter of a few weeks and am looking for something to give me a little spare time/insurance.

[Growernick]

I’m not trying to lead anyone an either direction here, but it’s worth mentioning an alternative product: Integra Boost packs. Integras offer a similar 2 way humidification, often at a competitive price. Integra packs also have a replacement indicator included with every pack, which allows for the user to visually know when the pack is spent. As for the gassing off of acetone in either product…I need to see some more comprehensive research on the topic…

[Farmer_Dan]

With a little digging, it appears that during the production of xantham gum (a Boveda ingredient), it is finally dropped out of solution with organic solvents, acetone being one.

“The methods for precipitating xanthan gum from aqueous solution include: precipitation using an organic solvent which is a nonsolvent for xanthan gum, for example by addition of acetone, methanol or isopropanol…”

https://patents.google.com/patent/EP0068706A1/en

It appears to still be done this way.

Considering this may not be a food grade xanthan gum, it could be possible that residual acetone off gassed.

Food for thought.

[RemoNutrients]

If the simplest answer is usually the correct answer and they’re using acetone as a solvent, then it safe to say that this is the most likely cause of the acetone gas.

The test data was insignificant though…

[RemoNutrients]

Integra was the company that did this study…

[Farmer_Dan]

9 ppb is equivalent to 9 drops of water in an Olympic sized pool. Definitely a big “meh” for me.

[alexander.carpenter]

Acetone is a minor metabolic by-product of human fat metabolism, and not at all toxic in the concentrations listed (or even much higher). We generate it in our bodies and we eliminate it routinely, without fear or drama. This whole matter is a nothing-burger, attesting to the cannibalism within the Cannabis “community” and the gullibility of the ignorant and neurotic.