Going legal?

Growing
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Our state ok’d mmj. Working out details currently. In a flux, but I don’t care.

I figure they ( the state ) needs me ( potential licensed grower ) more than I need them. My delima is, do I raise my head above the proverbial water…?

Can I do 100-150 outdoor plants by myself? I have irrigation and well. 220 acres of Secluded river bottom. I grow in my own tlo soil mix in deep holes.

I can now automate many past gorilla chores. Train plants, no fears of capture by Leo. I think with the automating many aspects 100+ can/should be a reachable goal.

My past averages are a 20 plant harvest. Starting with 100 seedlings. No plant training or regular irrigation. All major gurrilla warfare.

There is an uneasiness of being registered. Even with our dangerous drug narcotics division. Do pharmacies and compounder do the same? Jw?

So a couple of quick questions. I’m basing numbers based on $1kpp. Outdoor mid high grade. Exceptional taste and high.
Planing to license concentrates. Live plant extracts. Subcritical c02. Custom device.
Mfg our ferts. All bubbled organic.

So what am I missing in my picture?im betting low on net selling price. Over $1k is expected but not factored in the bus plan.

I can get pain in bulk at harvest time. During summer veg I have a 500 sqft room to flower. Not an experienced indoor grower. I do have 2 1000w clw pro light. 2 old magnetic ballast hps/sodium 400w too. Ac, dehumidifier. Extra cash for off seasoned for small batch boutique fire.

Monty, am I thinking straight? 100-150 x $1k? I can total. I will know cogs.
Concentrates 60ish wholesale oils/wax.

I’m a selling machine. I can move the product to dispensaries owners I appreciate doing business with. I’m old retired sales whatever…

Looking at Carr systems dryer. Might rent to other friends. This looks to be a kept secret. I want to know all pertant cannabusiness players in the state. Any advice with commercial drying and curing.
75lbs are much different drying 3-500 lbs. I have made mistakes at this process before. Fresh processing eliminates some of these fears.

The plan is shut mouth, grow up to 150ish plants. Expect 3lbs plant. Bust ass feb-nov. Sell to dispensaries, get paid, manage cash. Costa Rica Jan Feb. rinse repeat.

I’m expecting 2 years of supportive pricing. Again bust ass and pillage until the rules or prices change.

Looking for an attorney/cpa combo. I’m understanding 280e.
We are starting a pecan tree farm at same time. Looking to legally spread costs, expenses. I can rent/lease inbetween Companies.

I can’t register under my Corp umbrella. That is concerning. Registering with Bureau of narcs is concerning. Paying 280e tax is concerning. Not skert, gonna do it I think unless someone can hit me with a pitch that’s me rethink a part of my plan.

What were your first yr and 2nd yr uh ooo’s?

Those who did it, is it worth being legal…?

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I think what you need to ask yourself here is this -

Would you rather have a sustainable legal business that is going to displace and eliminate the black market and make you a shit ton of cash that you can report to the IRS, buy a house with and actually build a credit rating?
Or would you rather stick to what you know, and risk spending your life in jail trying to “fight the power” on a side of a the law that won’t exist in ten years.

It’s not an easy game to play, but growing legit…its pretty legit bro.

Come over to the light side.

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Take it from me: Going to jail for illegal growing sucks. The powers that be will destroy your life - and the’ye pros at it. It’s just not worth it.

I’m with @bryan.eden here. Come over to the light side!

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Give it a year and the state will not need you at all, people are going to swarm for licenses. Jump in, jump in now. I manage 3300 by myself with some seasonal labor for planting, 1 guy, and harvest, 2 guys. I could do 1000 completely by myself without any additional labor (I would need a trimming machine, roughly $20k, for dried flower market, but I could manage one myself at 1000 plants). Expect initial price to drop 25-30%, then expect it to do that again in year 2. Get your costs under control as quickly as possible. Imo, digging a hole and filling it with potting soil is a waste of time and money when tilling in a few inches of compost achieves the same goals. If you are near a waterway, your soil is probably fertile alluvium. There is my 2-4 cents.

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Great advice, as always, @Farmer_Dan!

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I didn’t see what state you are located in, but what I can tell you is this. We have completed the licensing process for 84 business entities in California as of today. The include around 23 cultivators, 14 extractors, 19 distributors, 2 event license, 1 testing lab and the rest dispensaries.

Our clients include cultivators in Humboldt, Mendocino, Trinity, Santa Barbara, Monterrey, Sonoma, Napa, and Alameda Counties.

The extractors are in Humboldt, Oakland [where our office is along with Chicago and New York.], Long Beach and San Diego.

We have been engaged with the cannabis industry in California since the passage of Prop. 215 in 1996.

Distributors and Dispensaries range from San Diego to Eureka and just beginning to move into Oregon.

That isn’t a sales pitch rather to provide you some perspective. If encounter an issue [keep in mind that we are > 96% strictly California], if the issue involves accounting, taxation, regulatory compliance or licensing and the associated technologies to support them we have probably seen the issue [our website abizinaboxcannabis.com has > 750 pages worth of technical information all of which is current and free.

Our focus is transactional, regulatory support, and controversy. We are clearly not the best choice for bookkeeping, routine sales and gross receipts filing, or hand holding/training…we have relationships with other firms that focus on that. We also have relationships with national firms that can perform attest - e.g. real review and auditing for cannabis businesses including public companies.

If you have issues what we call the stuff that can cripple a cannabis business so it can’t do what does well that covers a big piece of it. I would guess that some of the members here will agree.

If you have questions, that’s why we exist.

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Thanks, I don’t look good in orange and food sucks.
Idea of trimmer is same as dryer. Thanks
Will others rent and really pay to rent these?
Thought about trying to salesrep these devices?

I’ve had access to experts my whole life. Love’em
Recent semi retirement has been great on time to do these things, but I can’t go blow $5-10k on
Whatever…? How do you bill for consulting? Hourly?

Am I ok on my money thinking? Low hopefully for a year or two.

I just used good compost fortified. Subsurface irrigation and mulch or white plastic bc heat?
My costs are low. I have a well in a good aquifer. Electric submersible pump. Filters inline.
100+ shallow digs are easier, less efforts.

Legal farming sure let’s some opportunities for great canna farming techniques. Thank you YouTube.
This Just feels like a trick.

With _personally registering ** with state drug narcotic bureau I would assume the feds get the list too?
Could this affect my government contracting? My company is llc. The mmj license is personal.

When is it cool?

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Hey Farmer Dan, read your posting and you are me when I grow young again. Lol
Similar setup. You took care of many large outdoor grow questions. You sure changed my perspective.

How did you dry/cure 3000 plants? How much room did you need?

I still would like to know if licensed commercial growers must register with their state level bureau of narcotic and dd?

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Well, I’m a CPA and I specialize in 280 E compliance - yes, get legal because if you don’t you not only put yourself in danger but also any consultants you bring in to help.

-Just a few things I didn’t see that are going to effect your bottom line. Taxes, Taxes and more taxes. - yes you mentioned 280E but that is not the only tax that can be applied depending on your state.

I also find that most of the time growers under estimate the costs for water since even an outdoor grow must have irrigation in most states.

Cyndi Finkenbinder, CPA
www.alphaomega-acct.biz
970-344-7298

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This is a really good point. You’re going to have a hard time getting some direct information at this point as it can be a liability for us Owners to interact with the black market (at least in my personal position with the way the laws are played out here in Canada) even if your intentions are good, which I believe yours are.

My advise stays the same. Get over to the light side no matter what. Anything you learned growing old school applies to the legal system but theres a lot more paperwork and starting investment. As we all say here on GNet, grow what you know. Spend time on YouTube or google and sit down with a calculator to figure out how to scale. Research your market and your competition. But that’s as far as my advice can go my friend.

Good luck! Cant wait to see you over here!

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If your activity is limited to cultivation, the impact of IRC Sec. 280E should be ZERO or minimal provided that do sell to DIstributor or an Extractor in bulk, and don’t become part of the distribution channel. Unlike everyone else, rather than mutter some generic statement about IRC Sec. 280E, this is our discussion about the application of IRC Sec. 280E in the context of a cannabis business other than a dispensary

Our suggestion to Cultivators when vetting tax advisors to specifically ask them what they believe the impact of IRC Sec. 280E is on cultivators. It will become obvious very quickly has demonstrable knowledge of the subject versus those that limited knowledge and the ability say “IRC Sec. 280E” may be the extent of what they know.

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96’x30’ blacked out semi gable greenhouse with a 16’ peak. (2) 205 DHs, 4 large air movers. 1100 plants on two layers, hung whole. Initial dry down takes 2 weeks and then we buck and ‘cure’ in a shipping container. Not the best for dried flower market, I hit extracts. Price is low, but my costs are much lower. Processors don’t really care what it looks like. I may be trying a few hundred pounds of tops for the pre-roll market, if this recent connection pans out. I keep my thread updated on happenings. Oregon is a rough market.

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@Farmer_Dan I’m glad you’re able to give some advice.

@Bandit0, Dan will have the best advice as to produce a quality product with the LOWEST overhead costs possible. He has a very informative thread and has been featured in some public places because of his expertise, but I will let him brag about that.
@jszesq is one of our most knowledgeable people here when it comes to taxes, complainace, and the general mumbo-jumbo BS bureaucratic hoops we have to jump through to be compliant and legal.
You will also be able to find many other qualified people who can relate to your exact situation throughout GNet.

Good luck! It’s worth it brother.

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Thank you for the comment…I have to laugh, around most people would rather not talk about the stuff I deal with…so I have been using approach…if they let me do my job, we can try to minimize what they need to know about it. We have decided to give box of tax form as Xmas gifts this year. :joy:

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Please let me step back and kind of ‘einvent” myself if you will.
Don’t think I was a mini Tom forcade here. I Has a sick wife battling a bad disease and had to fend for ourselves if she were to live. . It Took a lot of material for concentrates. With a great dr and lots of grace she beat the odds. Healthy and happy!

So no blkmkt selling here. For the record.

what I would like to understand after doing some sorely needed homework on this forum, is how to cash in from our states new mmj laws.

Oklahoma is where I live.

My off cuff remark about being needed is based on watching our unelected officials write rules as we speak. My stubborn thinking is they will bicker and change. what I’m interested in is pretty straight forward. If there is nothing to sell the folks get restless. So I’m filling an important need. A risk I wish to be rewarded.

After viewing farmer dan and his posts plus spread in hq industry trade publication I found quickly I need some industry friends to be successful.

I am So use to hush hush, this forum great. real business experiences is wonderfully different.

Expenses. I tend to underestimate revenues Cogs and always over estimate costs…don’t like uh ohs…

So I can out of pocket 150-200 seeds, irrigation,ferts,equip,fuel,electric for the season.
I’m very intrigued by farmer dans 3300 approach. Wow! I would like to rethink my plan.

I envisioned growing 5+Lb large supported plants. But I have a tendency of distraction from shiny things… farmer dans setup. Lol. Our places look kinds similar. As in the landscapes. Beyond awesome field. No pretty girl dreaming that night, I was dreaming about farmer dans field.

So as of today there are very few limitations on commercial growers. That could change this week.

Like before my wishes are hitting this hard until prices collapse.

So bankrolling 3300 plants maybe a second year project. I’m trying now to concoct a new plan. Many interested so called investors but not really wanted at the moment. If the reward is solid and my confidence level increases 1-1.5k plants might fly yr 1. No legal access to clones.

Well has high flow rate. No water restrictions whatsoever. Electric is somewhat inexpensive. Ferts are reasonable. Lots of ag around my parts.

Green house to be built after hernia surgery this week. Materials on site. For winter seedlings. Jump on late spring.

Thanks on the business back office help as well. Eyes opening and positive information with the intricacies of 280e. I’m very interested in how to not file 280e. Great information. I’m intrigued and researching more.

All super great information. Rough me up… I need it. J

But seriously, your voices of experience chime loud.

Cheers

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Reinvent…

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Do you have a right to irrigate a crop? Is it needed? For Oregon, when we were MMJ it wasn’t regulated as ag, when we went rec ag rules applied, meaning legal water for a legal crop, rather than what amounted to watering house plants. Considering OK is no limit medical, it sounds between Oregon’s two laws and water rights may or may not be an issue.

Personally, we are about 99.7% 280E compliant with costs since we only make one sale per year, I have a couple trips to my buyer to talk shop and a lunch expense or 2. We are a Sub-S corp, run farm income and expenses and pay taxes or take losses via personal income on a K1 split among owners (family). My dad is the accountant, I haven’t learned those ropes yet.

I love mj middlemen. It lets me focus on growing while someone else focuses on adding value. I wish there were more middle levels. Like a wet flower curator that hand selects whole plants from farms and does the dry/cure/trim (u-cut cannabis trees). Precision drying and curing is key, and I can’t do it ideally at my scale without a bunch of infrastructure that I am not sure I even want, let alone afford. I could probably handle a few hundred pounds, and may try that this year. Imo, verticle integration is an expensive and difficult proposition, it didn’t fit our goals. Focusing on growing gives me the time to perfect what I do, rather than spend inordinate amounts of time peddling my wares, or needing a sales force. Maybe some day, but we started on a skinny budget and went non-standard and I am pretty happy with our current direction and not sure that I would change that given the chance.

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