I was pretty lucky to come across some good genetics in my area so I decided to gift my plants to my friends and re-start my second grow. 2 clones of Aficionado French Connection genetics and 2 Dominion genetics. The 2 Aficionados are Cherry Noir & White Caviar. The 2 Dominion strains are Munson & Granny Skunk.
They are currently sitting in 1 gallon pots until I transplant to 3 gallon pots once the girls are settled in their new home, so maybe a few weeks. The medium is Promix HP mixed with some worm castings and other organic stuff. When I transplant them it will be transplanted to just straight promix and I’ll feed using jacks.
They are currently in the dark until the lights come back on in an hour again.
Size: 3x3x6
Lights: HLG 260
Fan: AC Infinity T6
Temp: 24C
RH: 54%
All four plants will be cloned so I can have mother plants as I plan to try to keep them for as long as I can. You don’t come across those genetics easily and they’re also very expensive.
Shout out to @hoppiefrog for gifting me with those beautiful clones! Thank you very much brother, you have no idea how grateful I am for these.
Thought I’d tag you in my first journal here, if that’s ok with you. @devjyarn
Would love to hear some feedback. Constructive criticism is also welcomed
How much runoff do you measure, and do you measure the pH? You can use the in/out EC to tell you how much the plants are eating versus drinking, and the pH to give you an idea of what the plants are feeding on. It’s not as simple as that if you’re not running pure hydro, but check out your runoff pH next time and check out if it is rising and by how much compared to the input.
I’d hold off making any changes to their schedules. Keep giving them something consistent for a week and watch to see if getting some consistent attention is making the problem better or worse before changing anything up. It’s like noticing your chicken nuggets and fries aren’t cooked, then cranking the broiler to high as a reaction. There definitely is a problem - but the best solution isn’t always to jump in and change something right away.
How much time do you leave between your waterings? The soil should be at least 25% lighter than it is fully drenched and making runoff before it is fully drenched again. Depending on how big the plants and containers are, and the light intensity and VPD of the room, the plants might need to be fed 1 time every three days or 1 time every few hours.
They are looking really good! You’ve got a great wealth of knowledge with @hoppiefrog and the crew being local to you. And don’t be afraid to blast the girls with some light; so long as you give a consistent feeding when the plants feel 25-50% lighter than after a full watering, they’ll grow like, well, weeds. Be sure to hold of on the first watering of the day until a few hours after lights on - make sure they’re awake and wanting to be fed, rather than force feeding them.
Hello @devjyarn, thanks a lot for your detailed response and questions. Much appreciated.
I go for 10% but now im thinking I should go for 20-30%.
By that you mean stick to the jacks 321 formula?
On my first grow I was feeding/watering everyday with promix but I was either on a f/f/f/w or f/w/f/w schedule. This time im giving them a day a day in between and its my first time using jacks. Im testing out a f/w schedule with calmag on water only days to supplement and thats every other day. Based on the ppm for run off I might switch to feeding everyday without any watering days or day off inbetween.
Im still very new to jacks and its my first time using it. I heard with promix you dont let it dry otherwise it will become hydrophobic (thats the term I believe) and its best to keep it damp as it can retain water just fine if you water everyday.
I do have some questions based on the questions you asked me. Hoppfiefrog advised I inquire about jacks with you if you can answer some questions for me that would be great. I’ll shoot you a DM if we can set something up and we can go into more details about my grow because I could really pick your brain about a few things if its ok with you
Feel free to post up any questions here and I’ll do my best to answer. Someone might stumble upon this later with the same question, so it might be useful to have it available.
For consistency, all I mean is that you give them the same thing for a week. If you’re feeding Jack’s and they only need to be fed every 2 days, with 1 full day of dry-back, then that’s your consistency. If you’re feeding Remo and running it at half strength, follow that for a week. It’s a lot easier to find out what’s going wrong when you can say to yourself “well, I know they’ve been exactly ____ for a week, so if my problem continues then I need to start searching for the source of the problem”.
If you’re going pure pro mix and Jack’s, I wouldn’t ever skip a feeding. The trick comes in to keep track and compare the pH and EC of what goes into the plant versus what comes out as runoff. Allowing for a bit of dry back should mean your pH and EC should both be a bit higher than the fresh solution going in. Something typical for me might be:
Start: pH 5.5, EC 2.0
End: pH 5.7, EC 2.2
This tells me that the plants are feeding (the rise in pH tells me ions are being absorbed by the roots) and drinking (the rise in EC means the amount of water went down and the plants are actually drinking more than feeding). I grow in rockwool using Jack’s.
I certainly would not suggest letting the medium dry out completely. That leads to huge pH spikes in the roots and all kinds of problems that can’t be undone; ask me how I know, haha. The plants do need a chance to drink up a bit of food and water, and they also need to let the roots breathe during lights out. It’s tougher to breathe through drenched soil than damp soil at night.
I thought the ppm should be a tiny bit lower for the run off as this tells us that the plants are actually eating their food as opposed to leaving some and not eating it all hence a slightly higher ppm.
That was just yesterday. The clones I got were already in 1 gallon pots filled with promix HP, worm castings, crab meal, alfalfa meal, glomas, and bacillus subtilis. I never used organics and Intend on transplanting to 3 gallons once the plants get bigger and only using Promix HP.
Now my question is, based on whats in the medium right now, which I have no experience with, and the run off numbers for yesterdays feed. What would be the next course of action? Continue with GH Silica and jacks 321 everyday? Or would it be every other day to allow for a dry-back day? PH of 5.8 alright for input solution? Should I give them anything tonight or let it dry?
Sorry about all the questions, I’m just lost. @devjyarn
If you were running a perfect hydro system (like DWC) then you’d achieve your pH and EC being identical throughout the entire grow. DWC doesn’t dry back, and the pH and EC changes happening at the roots get quickly washed away into the huge amount of solution in the system. When we grow in a medium a bit of dry back can be beneficial to the plants and help you “steer” them to grow more vegetative or flowering. The dry back will cause a bit of salt buildup (hence the higher EC) and the pH in the medium will spike as the roots absorb the nutrients. The salt buildup gets flushed and ends up in the runoff, which can cause higher EC in the run off than in the fresh feed solution.
I would recommend you stick with what you’ve been mixing; 321 and silica pH’d to 5.8. I’d also suggest looking at something with kelp and fulvic acid. There are some good, cheap powdered options available.
Lift the plants to see how heavy they are at the start of lights-on and how much they change just before lights off. Your plants shouldn’t need more than one feeding per day. I’d try to schedule it to happen 2+ hours after the lights come on so the girls are good and thirsty.
In general:
Keep the temp and humidity stable (24* and 54% are just fine for veg).
Blast them with as much light as you can keep up with. The plants will grow as fast as they can get the light. If you can keep up with the pace, making sure they don’t get too dry and are always getting enough food, you can grow monsters.
Keep feedings consistent. Most issues happen because of missed feedings or drastic over-corrections to fix suspected deficiencies/excesses.
Keep track of how your plants look over time. Things happen really slow, and most deficiencies that are visible today are a result of something that happened last week.
Do you mind explaining the purpose of both and how to incorporate it with jacks? What brands would you recommend or to get them from?
Maybe @hoppiefrog can lead me to some around here too
Do you mind giving me a quick summary of what you consider ideal in terms of temp and RH for all three stages of the plant?
Also whats a good range to stay in when it comes to ppm and pH for run off. for example no more than 0.5 increase for pH, so pH going in is 5.8, anything above 6.3 for run off would that be bad? Same question goes for ppm
Here’s a quick article on kelp and fulvic/humic acid. It works magic in the roots. Humic or Fulvic Acid: What Kind are Your Plants On?
Any kelp will do. I use the powdered stuff from NPK Industries, but there are bottles available from others and different people make it in powdered form too. Use whatever makes the most sense to you.
Kelp and fulvic are not critical. Do not stress if you aren’t supplementing this grow yet.
The range for runoff is unique. Keep a record of what goes in and comes out, and take notes on how the plants are looking. If things start to look strange, and you noticed your pH hasn’t been rising like it was last week, then you’ve got some evidence that there might be a problem.
From seedling/clone through to veg and into flower, the humidity and temperature extremes get more extreme. In clone something without roots starts off at 100% humidity and 24°C night and day. As it gets ready to transition into veg I’ll want to have things around 26°/60% in the day and 22°/55% at night. At the end of flower I might have 27°/50% during the day and 20°/40%.
Keeping things dialed in around 24°/55% rh keeps the plants quite happy.
Thank you very much @devjyarn I appreciate your answer.
I was told because im in soil, I dont have to feed using jacks until the runoff TDS drops, because the salts kill bacteria. What number should the runoff TDS reach so I can start feeding using jacks without any issues?
When I use straight Promix HP I dont adjust my tap water’s pH (water only days, no nutrients) because the TDS is 34-40 ppm so it adopts the pH of the medium. Now with soil, I heard 6.5 is whats ideal for in and out.
In my case with soil do I still have to adjust the pH before watering. If yes, should I used GH pH down solution or do I have to use vinegar in this case?
I think I see where ur reading is giving you issues… You are saying ppm at over 3k when u feed at just above 1k and ur soil was reading about the same. Now I think you have been using a tds meter? They are different tools and will require a conversion that will not be totally accurate.that would explain a lot lol
