That last picture on the bottom left , the leaves look a lot like russet mite damage. With that being said you should scope the leaves like Jaya suggested. It is also its likely several compounding problems. I leaning towards possible lockout and russet mite infestation. TMV can be tested , but you’ll notice mosaic patterns in light green and yellow on half a side or whole leaf, hence the name .
Edit: Closer inspection I don’t actually see mite damage, but again you never know. looks like you sprinkled Californicus which is great.
Wanted to give an update - really appreciate everyone’s feedback and opinions.
We tested for TMV - test came back negative.
Great suggestion on the scoping - we have been doing that, there have been broad and cyclomine (sp?) mite issues around our geography both of which can hide in the fresh growth. Haven’t seen anything other than our beneficials so far.
Currently going back to the basics to assessing from the ground up. A theory now might be as simple as overwatering, we have bays of 500 plants and these examples may be getting ‘drowned’ as they tend to be weaker and may not be developing the root structure to uptake at the same rate as their stronger sisters. Not showing the typical drooping leaves etc of overwatering … and would feel kinda silly if that’s the issue, but would be happy to take the easy fix.
I will get pix tomorrow. The plants have yellow dying off, low uptake and is everywhere. We are not getting anything back from testing yet but now believe it could poss be root aphids. Finding super small jumping larva, not a lot and only a few aphids found. If it is fusarium the plants would have died by now. Touch as we are in week 5 outdoor.
Yes I’ve dealt with broad mites. I have an 80x handheld and its def not those bastards. We now think it could be root aphids. Finding very tiny jumping larva and only a couple of root aphids. The plants are flowering nicely but def are not getting enough uptake. The test we got back said we had Alternaria wilt/ blight and we have used the appropriate organics like actinovate and lacto bacillus.
Tiny jumping larva are probably springtails which are benign. Could be thrips, but you’ll see heavy damage to the lower leaves if their populations are out of control (above an economic threshold).
By the time I see root aphids flying around (or walking around the edge of the soil) they have reached high populations in the soil. Even then, it takes a LOT of root aphids to affect a plant like in your photos. I’m not saying it’s out of the question…sometimes there will be a cluster of them in the bottom or side of a pot. The cluster/colony may only cover 5% of the volume of the soil, but it noticeably effects the plant.
Drench with beauvaria bassiana (https://www.bioworksinc.com/products/hort-insect-control.php) and apply rove beetles (dalotia coriaria) if you don’t already have established populations.
Could this be a micronutrient issue? Might be worth sending a soil sample to the lab to rule that out. I use Logan Labs. $30 for “AEA Base Test Plus EC, Mo, Co, Se, Si @ $30.00 each”. Might as well get a paste test, too ($30), but I’m still learning how to interpret those.
feed the soil . healthy soils make a healthy plant. make sure its digesting and nutrients are chelated with organic acids. a nice dose might loosen things up
The problem is getting worse everywhere, we have a couple of strains that have a 5% rate of infection, we call it dudding, some mothers start to be affected, then overwatering symptoms show. Might be something called Putative Cannabis infectious agents, although a virus might be at play it’s not TMV, there is a build up of Calcium Oxalate implant tissue reducing uptake etc. certain varieties like GG4 are affected in a lot of people’s grows.
When you say ‘different lead cluster shape’ do you mean the 5 leaf fan leaf pattern?, one thing we have noticed on the symptomatic plants is 3 ginger fan leaves often with a small runted 4th leaf that is barely formed.
An update for anyone following along. We had full analytics done on crown and roots, feed water, overdrain water etc. Good news/bad news all came back negative for pathogens (i.e. no broad mite, aphids, pythium etc)… list of things it isn’t is getting longer but haven’t yet identified what it is… seeing a slightly elevated Chloride level in the water that we’re looking into but thats about it.
Agdia Labs makes great virus testing kits, easy to use and very reliable.
They need to be kept refrigerated and come with an expiration date. We use them regularly and they can screen for more than one virus.
You should also send some tissue samples out to a reputable lab,for analysis, its worth the money as anu good lab will usually offer advice on corrective measures.
My gut tells me this is nutritional and something has these plants "locked up "
Thanks a lot for the feedback david. We have had a couple of labs come test. Negative for TMV etc. About the only thing we have seen so far is slightly elevated Chloride levels. I agree with you that it looks ‘locked up’, we have seen plants with 1 branch that is ok and another one that isn’t. Experimenting with soil (vs. coco) in our 1 gal pots, dirtying up the RO water a little etc. Making progress but haven’t nailed it.
Thanks @graham, i know growers that have tissue levels of 2-2.5% (20000-25000 ppm) chloride in perfectly healthy plants. All of the strains in the grow are at this level. Cl is the red headed step child of micro-nutrients.
It is interesting that your Cl levels have increased, I would think that the level would keep increasing if it was a cause and effect from whatever is going on. ??
