You understand pretty well but have several mistakes included. I received the first UPOV breeders rights for a drug variety of Cannabis more then 20 years ago, I know what I am talking about.
Hey @watson, could you please point out some areas that could be improved upon? We are all trying to learn together! 
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I am not here to teach, if I wanted to do that I would maybe do consulting and be paid for it. I do support the OCP but they do not really understand the issues as they have not been directly involved with the issues, be it Cannabis plant patents, or my expertise UPOV PBR or PVP. I am sure that will change now that Cannabis is being legalised worldwide, but when I started in the 80’s that was not the case.
I do wish you all the best and if anyone like Beth Schechter wants to hire me as a consultant I might consider that, I am the biggest contributor of genetics to the PHYLOS BIOSCIENCE Galaxy but am disappointed with their work thus far.
I will suggest you promote proper terms there are no Cannabis STRAINS there are clone CULTIVARS or seed VARIETIES when I see folks use STRAINS I cringe.
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Shame none of the lawyers you consulted with have filed or received Cannabis plant patents or UPOV protection for their varieties, they have little idea of the reality of Cannabis plant IP. In general the USA is backwards for understanding UPOV and Cannabis as in the USA it can’t be done.
@watson, a few questions, if I may:
What has been your experience with Phylos?
What do you feel the future holds in regards to cannabis IP? Do you believe there is a tidal wave of litigation forthcoming?
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I guess this has become a dick measuring contest of who knows more and what not. I am a member of this forum to give and get advice and Don’t want to be paid or compensated for it. Much too much greed going on in this scene for me. I appreciate the love. Screw Your Politics Period.
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I know the subject of patenting bio-organisms, regardless of the species, is a very touchy subject for a lot of people , and rightfully so. I know we are entering a new realm of science with a lot of ethical questions surrounding it, but please remember we are in a professional forum to have informed discussions. I am very interested in how people feel about the subject and I also respect the fact that others may hold a belief with which I may or may not agree. I actually welcome this because it is in disagreement we often find the true spirit of healthy discourse. In spite of the disagreement, we all need to respect each other within the community in the hopes that we are all able to grow as individuals.
I just wanted to chip in my two cents here.
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Partly towards Watson but anyone else that wants to have a know it all attitude in this forum or any forum. We are all hopefully trying to give and receive advice without bashing or hating on anybody else’s views. I am all about the Help and Love. I also came from along time ago like Watson and understand the mentality of the older and often times jaded growers. If you want to consult for money that’s fine just put it in the classifieds.
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We all have a place at this table, regardless of opinion. This is a forum to share and to educate and hopefully we are all able to maintain a strong, healthy and respectful community. Thanks for the response and I appreciate your wisdom and willingness to see things from the other side.
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Just trying to be humble and loving and pass on those vibes. I don’t know all the right answers that’s why I am here to reach out to the community and add where I can and listen and learn when I can. I have more than once been schooled on something and totally changed my opinion but I was always schooled with love and learning in mind nothing else. If you have more experience and or knowledge Please help out with that said knowledge so we as a community can learn together. Thanks everybody on this growers network forum for helping me come out of the shadows of secret growing to an open platform.
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In all politeness @mattallen1977 - you clearly do not know who Watson is, as he has been sharing his knowledge and genetics with the cannabis community for decades. If you have been growing since the 80’s, I guarantee you have grown some of his genetics without even knowing it.
People should be able to share what they want, when they want, and not feel obligated to play teacher when other people ask for lessons. This community is based upon legality and business, and someone pointing out that they can be hired for consulting on a given topic is totally appropriate among professionals. IMHO.
Also in my opinion, most people talking about plant patents do not know what they are talking about. Much of the concern over potential cannabis plant patents crippling the industry is much ado about nothing.
And @watson - Thank you for joining us and for all you have done over the decades.
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Im sure I have ran into Watson or at least his work before since I have been in the scene since your heydays at 1444 market st. I would never disrespect someone who has paved the road like Watson but lets not forget Watson was not the only grower back then to contribute to this scene. He just seems to share a lot of the older vibes which I don’t care for. I disagree with you over the use for this forum as I find it to be a source of knowledge to give and receive. Once again I go back to love. Lets not forget about people like Dr John Hudson or Jack both were great growers with no ego at all.
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Hey all - looks like a lot’s been going on in the past few hours. @Growernick, thank you for moderating.
@watson, thank you for your thoughts, particularly re: overlooking UPOV. You’re right that the US has it’s own set of rules, and being in the US those are the rules I’ve been steeped in. I’m just now learning about the rules in Canada and international patent treaties; I’m adding UPOV to my list.
I also appreciate calling out that there are mistakes; in the interest of my education, and of open knowledge and dialogues so that we can all be more informed on this challenging topic, I’d love if you’d share your thoughts here. Given that OCP can barely pay me a living wage, unfortunately paying consulting fees is not an option. Would you consider sharing your knowledge here as a donation to our organization and to the greater cannabis community?
Speaking of things I might have gotten wrong, before hopping on this thread, I was reading through Plant Breeder’s Rights regulations for Canada and the Plant Breeder’s Rights Act, I came across this language:
(3) In paragraph (2)(c), “sufficiently homogeneous variety” means such a variety that, in the event of its sexual reproduction or vegetative propagation in substantial quantity, any variations in characteristics of plants so reproduced or propagated are predictable, capable of being described and commercially acceptable.
Which then made me wonder if the language included clones. Lo and behold, in the Interpretations section:
“plant variety” means any cultivar, clone, breeding line or hybrid of a prescribed category of plant that can be cultivated;
So it seems like my statement re: PBR being about seeds is wrong - though PVP (in the US) only covers seeds, it seems like PBR covers clones as well.
What else?
In terms of UPOV, it looks like I have some reading to do. For anyone else who is interested, here’s UPOV’s GUIDELINES FOR THE CONDUCT OF TESTS FOR DISTINCTNESS, UNIFORMITY AND STABILITY . Looking forward to reading.
Re: thoughts on calling things strains vs. cultivars, I agree with you. At the same time, “strain” is so such a strong vernacular! I’ll use the terms interchangeably depending on context. Like you say, it’s hard to always be a teacher 
Also, are you the David Watson featured here?
https://www.accesswire.com/473598/Industry-Pioneer-David-Watson-Joins-United-Cannabis-Corp-Advisory-Board
For those on the thread that might not be familiar, UCANN’s lawsuit against True Hemp is the first of its kind, and will likely set set the tone for patent litigation and enforcement in the cannabis space:
Thanks again for sharing your thoughts, and here’s to open knowledge and informed discussions.
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If you mean Jack - as in Jack Herer, I would like to inform you that since 1994, I have been one of the editors of his book The Emperor Wears No Clothes, and that Jack never grew a single cannabis plant in his life. And to say Jack had no ego, means you clearly did not know Jack. I loved him like he was my dad, but you could not be more off in your thinking that he was an egoless grower, as nothing could be further from the truth.
Like you, I am all about disseminating information about cannabis, and so is Watson, as few growers/breeders/writers have given as much to the community as he.
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most people talking about plant patents do not know what they are talking about. Much of the concern over potential cannabis plant patents crippling the industry is much ado about nothing.
I agree with you on the first count, and mostly on the second.
In terms of the first sentence, many people don’t know what they’re talking about because IP law + (cannabis science & law) = super tricky. It’s not surprising that most people don’t know what they’re talking about.
In terms of the second sentence, I agree that most of the fear about patents on plants being devastating to the industry is uninformed. Which speaks to your first point - people are super uninformed! If we want to change the dialogue, there is some work to be done to bring people up to speed to understand the law and its limitations.
This kind of work takes a village, in my opinion - I love teaching, but I’m also only a year into being steeped in this subject matter (before I worked in technology education, technical writing, and open data). We need experts and the broader community together to make this education, and a more informed public, happen. Part of why I’m excited to bring these subjects to forums like this one is so that we can teach and learn together, so that we can have informed discussions as a community.
In my time at OCP, I’ve also worked to change our language to not be so fear-based - when I came on board, that’s something that definitely made me ask some questions. Based on what I’ve learned in terms of the overall patenting landscape, plant and utility patents on cannabis plants cover a narrow sliver of the cannabis patents out there. The vast majority of patents cover formulations, processes, and uses…not plants. Those patents may end up being more restrictive than anything placed on a plant, but we won’t be able to make any kind of educated guess until we see the outcome of related litigation.
And, like the UPOV correction above points out, the laws are different between countries, which makes it even harder to learn about and teach.
So yes - most people really do not know a lot about patents and plants (not to mention other IP methods for plants), and most of the fear I hear is based on noise.
For me, the issue I see really has to do with a lack of documentation about cannabis following prohibition: if we had proper documentation - and better public research - we would not have to question the validity of some of the patents that have been issued.
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@Growernick - an admin/mgmt question - could or should we change the name of this thread to use the word Cultivar in place of Strain? Or does it make sense to make a new channel, like Cannabis, IP, and Ethics or something?
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I just want to say thank you for your response Beth, as you clearly get where I am coming from in my response.
I appreciate what OCP is doing and I am glad to see you taking the lead and working to educate the community. There is so much confusion surrounding the subject and I look forward to future information from both you and OCP.
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Thanks!! That means a lot. I’ll keep at it, and look forward to having you as part of the discussion.
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Hey @beth, the original member who created this post is @agrisciencetesting. If they want, they can change the name of this topic. Also, let us know if you would like us to split the latter half of this discussion into a new post.
Furthermore, if there are more discussions surrounding these relevant topics, we are more than happy to create a dedicated category for these discussions to live.
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