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The perfect designs for the small guy

Shawn let’s brain storm here.

What is your goal.

From the voices in my head



Ok so I loved this idea and actually what I have been working on/refining is a scaled version of this however for the purposes of this conversation and how you mentioned you want to tell Alexa “grow” and start veg … so far here is how I lay it out in my current set-up …

2 x 4 tent
315 cmh (on a light mover)
8 - 1 gallon pots

Veg - I keep moms/clones under a NextLight veg8… sooooo given this hobbyist grow constraint I’m assuming they will purchase clones and just go directly there

Here’s I would tell any hobbyist a 315 on a mover will debatably give you the best intensity and will work for a week or two of veg… top/fim once and change light cycle

Veg one /two weeks

I currently use FloraFlex on a pump timer that delivers 1 gal to 8 plants over 30/40 sec intervals once maybe twice a day … I can see how this could all be programmed…only a matter of having a reservoir with fresh water/pump/circulation fans etc

Makes sense align nutrient schedule to drip feed system…

And harvest

My two thoughts here are this …
1)fresh water
2) how often is this hobbyist touching the systems because building in for a day vs a week makes for a vast difference in water space


Purfect. You want a hobby system.

Do you want soiless or Hydroponic or air ponic.

From the voices in my head

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My thought would definitely be hydro … coco … more stable then others and has some buffer … I feel like there isn’t any soil bag mix I could give someone and tell them “make sure you top off the water and they’ll be fine”… also soil indoors always presents its own challenges and not exactly “plug and play” … with the coco you can also reuse the medium with little effort … that’s a cost savings over the long run

Also on the pump/drip irrigation coco would be a breeze setup …

Ok I know we are saying “hobbyist” but we are talking newbie hobbyists right? I feel like the problem with building these systems is you are right on that demographic cusp of anyone who knows better can build a custom setup to fit their exact space better then anything prefab…

I love this thought experiment though…

Honestly whether it be an 8sq 9sqft or 10sqft that’s what I’ve found you could scale into 99% of commercial grow ops as most of their sqft will be a multiple and based on light configurations that fit those parameters … also when on the face of it systems like these mimic commercial table grow systems …

Putting the numbers behind those days and weeks of nutrient, dosage cost per day, and so on I already have in excel so could easily be uploaded to a doser … programming to accept any spreadsheet and any number of different nutrients is where it gets more complex I think from a programming/dispensing side ? I don’t know but that’s where my head is


Saterday I will answer.

From the voices in my head Ethan :upside_down_face:

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You asked good questions and I like the thought process. But let sell the masses type home grow.
@FarmerK, you want this too.
A pumis like glass. Pumis, red scoria or recycled puffed glass. Puffed lab grade glass to expense. 1/2 gallon. Mixed sizes.

6 inch net pot. Grow net pots. I like a heavier duty one find a smaller quantity $2 for a good one.
1 five gallon pails. Plus lid One

  1. 48 quart colman cooler.

1/2 inch PVC thread screw and nut end / 1/2 barb end for viynal tube.
Rubber 1/2 gaskets 4 fits for the PVC. (May have to use a special washer.) :frowning:
Silicon calk for water tank fish grade. :grimacing:
Little Giant pump submersible small size. :upside_down_face: it’s small. $30
Aquarium tank heater low end or a sousvide high end $120 I think it can go low enough we want 75 degree water. Anova Precision Cooker Nano @Farmer_Dan this for TC heat cycle.

Drip emitter 2 Netafin 1/2 gallon button emitters. Tubing and pressure reducer Netafin.

Fittings to go from pump to neafine pressure reducer. We need 15 psi.

Ferilizer, I would use a inorganic fertilizer
You need two.
Veg NPKCA 1:1:1:1 rario bloom 1:3:2:1 ratio. I am going to have to look might have to blend 2 fertilizer or 3 to get the ratio correct. Other issues if you not high quality. Distilled?

8 week grow cycle. 10 week add to two weeks to first veg cycle.
Week 1, 2 and 3 veg feed normal light
Weeks 4 and 5 bloom feed
Week 5 short day start end 4 days later
Week 6, 7, 8 normal light.

Pale lid design

Sorry I am no artist. Basic idea is the net pot needs a lot of support
Hang the pot as close to the lid as possible. zip types. You need whole and a plastic washer for each whole. Can you get 6 or 8 supports.

Irigation control will be done by a dew point calculation and a probe is need. @neville sir can you calculate the due point for me? I need the water just stopping drip. Before this I should have a a gallon a minute flow. Then stop as soon as the drops ate everyb15 seconds I want to start the pump. Due point would be better. The issue is the pump will run 10 minutes rest until drip stops. As the plant gets bigger the longer for the drips to stop. By the end the five gallon pail could be full of roots I did it wrong if this happens about 50% of the bucket epwillhave fine root hairs.
I grew in a closet almost with this we use a five galleon pail top and an 8 gallon on bottom. You have to insulate the bottom pail. With the metiods obove you habr 48 quate or 12 gallons of space heated and covered. You will have to make a whole for the heater.

Question who light? One of the big boy lights? $1500. Might be able to light four or six plants. I have to look @GrowFlux light spread a pail will take up 2.5 sqft at beginning of week nine? How many lights per 2.5 sqft? Plants are 18 on center. Or how many plants on 18 in enters can I light?:thinking:

That is for or six of pails need a bigger cooler.

What am I missing. :thinking:

From the voices in my head

@neville, this is the exact ecersises we go through in structures. We called them pocket designs.

They really are the basic grow can you help on this. This will lead to sales. Promise.

Rules spend less on the smaller

The container reusable but best quality available.
@Farmer_Dan please play this grower exercises.
@MK3_Pharms, interested?
@LED_Cultivation, Austin, this might take your mind of on thing and one to another. This is kinda a small segment of what we talked about.

Plus how do I control it. I want say “Alexa start grow one”. This starts an eight week program. We can use the alexa design template kit free. I have license.

From the voices in my head

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Idk, man. really i dont. I mean maybe there is a market for this. But be real here. there are loads of these things out and coming more. How long did it take you to realize you need more. plants,room,lights,genes, money. That said anyone lookimg into these single plant automated grow boxes. soon realized they dont yield anythimg worth while. also they are huge in cost. breaking down those factors. i dont feel the market is ready. At least im not ready. The idea is cool, however not new. Alexa smart plugs can do you tasks.



You may be correct on the financial viability. But, my real use is to introduce the larger community to other production methodologies. And the cost benefits ratio.

On companies that have to report the sqft of product and the pound produced per year I find a yield disconnect. They are under producing by 50%.

My real goal is to be able to give boutique medical growers a way to grow crops for clients.

My guess the best medical growers and breeders are going to find blend dry product to give a more targeted profile. For example I know for me personally I like a 2:1 THC to CBD that is hard to breed today. Without an adverse effects on total plant productivity.

  1. given the current breeding goals and limitation in the way the genetics of cannabis is organization. I personally like a light profile terpintines. That just my preference.
  2. No one can breed a line with a 2:1 profile without a productivity problem. The genetics will not support it. In a perfect plant we know from the published genetics that CBD : THC plus CBD : THC only plants, distribute out at 1:2:1 ratio. To different genetic loci but two close to each other split with any high probability.
  3. Both CBD and THC are located (loci) on chromosome 6. At the section, I posted a good paper in plant genetic mapping of cannabis.
  4. The loci is located in the on the end of chromosome 6 within the last 10%. This is good it makes an easy target.
  5. We have not located the part of the chromosome that produces the RNAt that encoding. This is the part that tells THC and CBD to produce.
  6. RNAt two different ones, one for THC and on for CBD behave like wheat charbidrate production. The more encoding copies the more protein gluten is stored in the seed. We know the low end in wheat is 10% and the high end is about 20% above or bellow this range the plant is not viable.
  7. The open Cannabis genetics project gives us 600 fully sequenced cultivars and there profiles of secondary compounds. What they don’t give me is good written description of the botanical properties of the plant size of the average plant.

@Farmer_Dan, @Growernick, @FarmerK and @fdousty.


It depends on what we are talking about. Are you suggesting one of those self enclosed grow boxes. Or a small scale fully automated tent type grow. Because i use at home a 2x2, 3x3, 8x4 tents for different projects. Mainly meds. Also genectic projects. My numbers are small. around 4 to 8 lbs a year. But its just for me not for sale. My system is pretty set it forget it. Nothing fancy. just timers and lights. Less is sometimes more. Im always preaching to people. STOP over complicating this process. Not saying you are. Just saying more functions and systems lead to more potential failures. Less is more.


That is part of the answer, for sure. :upside_down_face:

But, the excise of controlling the factors I can easily control let’s the professional grower, concentrate on the items that are harder to control, because they become value judgements of the grower.

So yes we are building a solid gold tollet. But, it’s a good and solid learning tool. If you can express an idea in writing, others can learn and poke holes in the ideas.

You are always talking about open source genetics. This is the grow side of open source production methods.

Your knowledge of both cultivars and the grow can help others. I am just trying to add to the growth of our collective knowledge and make sure that the boutique or small growers are not left out of the discussion. The comercal boutique growers are going to be the source of all the best medical grade cannabis for the average man. Most people are not going to become growers. My issue is the quality of crops is too variable from batch to batch of the same cultivar. This tells me there is a grower problem. Any grower should be able to grow to the reference standard of cannabis for a cultivar.

But, in cannabis there are no reference standard by cultivar. If I grow chrysanthemum, every cultivar has a published reference standard for each week of production. I can compare my plants to a reference grow and see if I am under performing, meeting my target or above average.. Plus, my own growth notes.

Tom, do you want to contribute?

@fdousty, this is the answer to QA question you asked me.

From the voices in my head





What about the light? Your ok with the light?


From the voices in my head

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the lighting issues are huge. especially for a small micro type enviromemt. todays efficacy and raw power would destroy them plants. What im saying is this. ive seen a lot of these products. Zero percent would i buy. In fact its pretty funny to me. Doesnt mean it wont work or sell. But this is the grower in me , It says lol nope. because if your growing plants in small areas. dry product is sooo small vs time and investment. at that point go to the local shop. might aswell grow autos in a corner.



I want to grow four plants indoors.

Give me your recipe

Here is the gold toilet of grow rooms



My formula wont help you. In thought you can use a 3x3. I persoanlly use the Gorrilla Grow tents with the extra exstension up top. Then its about. Lighting, Soil, Nuets, Genectics, Ventalation. It isnt a complex task. My huge thing is quality. Especially in lighting. This is what i consider the main factors for tent growing. Due to temps. Do you wanna go passive? active? intake and exhaust? All in all its simple, but costly for quality. You will see hundreds of growers on forums or IG with a $300 1000w LED. However they proof is in the pudding. I put lighting on the top of my project. Everytime. I will work around a light.



@ethan @MK3_Pharms

Sorry to jump in on this …but without finding some genetic mother of all breeds in one wouldn’t this be next to impossible because all of the hybrids today would make it impossible to say ‘x’ is a standard when ‘x’ nowadays is already 10/20 generations along? Like where do you start ? Landraces? … now with genetic diversity being what is it I think you’d be opening up a can of worms just to say the word standard around anyone in the genetics game… I don’t know :man_shrugging: just asking / observing

Thoughts? :thought_balloon: ??

-always learning-


I love this thought experiment. It seems to me that the issue is parameters. Golden Toilets being what they are, I mean, spending $10,500 for a grow-box is kinda dumb (for most), as well, if you’re interested in The Best Possible Lighting then there’s the good old Sun. So parameters need to be set for this experiment to have a fruitful outcome. Are we just trying to bilk the inexperienced growers into throwing money at a system? Ids it pro-sumer? Is it for breeders? Automation doesn’t really impress me, btw… Just my thoughts :slight_smile:

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No, I have a vary serious perpose.

As growers regardless of scale we make compermises. The question when you build a “gold toilet” I can bases on hard numbers where I can compermize. This will be different for each grow. But, I want to bet against high labor. :upside_down_face:

The question I have is give me the highest ROI in 10,000 square feet. Go. :thinking:

I know a lot of great growers who can not balance a check book :frowning:

There is a balance, where is it? I don’t know.

From the voices in my head


@Herbert_Ashe @ethan

Its all just a fancy way trying to get to the lowest cost/sq/ft without sacrifices to end quality obviously… i think thats where you will have a vast amount of debate but the methods and yea as Ethan mentioned those “compromises” provide the data points for measuring efficiency impacts :slight_smile: this question will always vex me… and moreover when you start to include local variation such as lower humidity at diff altitudes or higher energy costs in different areas you may run into further variation but again those “compromises” are the touchpoints to measure variation and thus measurable data relative to impact…