Im currently planning on an expansion of my current operations. I’m changing the existing systems to led. Currently we have a small area in which we have been testing fluence spydrx plus and luminous iluminar il8. Both are nice lights and can produce a quality product and meet our requirements for production weight. Im searching for all other serious led lighting systems for serious large scale production. People recently suggested lumigrow as a prospect for our operations. Could anyone with knowledge in this area please provide me with the best options currently available? Im trying like most to find the product that provides the highest quality and quantity. I don’t mind spending now to benefit for the future. Thank you for all your help and assistance
@GrowFlux. I’ve used every light on the market. I love these FluxScale LED’s! They are my current favorite LED. So much ability to fine tune and program. So much light! Plus everything is water tight so you can spray the whole fixture down…so easy to CLEAN!
Thanks @ growernick i hadnt heard about these systems. Thank you for your advice. I will spend sometime and learn what i can about them.
If your target is quality and yield then you should definitely take a look at our lights. We make the most powerful fixtures on the market (up to 1050 watts and demonstrated yields of over 3.5 lb per fixture) and have the most complete spectrum from UV to IR which produces amazing results. I would recommend checking out our lights here or if you want to dive into the details and science check out our LST article or read through our FAQ which is full of good information.
We do full lighting plans using software to simulate the grow facility and can provide whatever light levels you are looking to hit. Best of luck on your project!
Black Dog LED
I just watched this video where they compare 30 grow lights for efficiency.
The fluence spydrx came as the #1 top efficient light.
So from a business perspective, you’ll be getting the most light for your electricity bill with those ones.
We could make the most efficient fixture in the world out of all red LEDs, say 660nm. It would be more efficient than anything in that video. The problem is it would grow the lankiest weakest plants you can imagine. Efficiency is important for sure, but as with many things in life the full picture is a bit more complex than just efficiency. We are growing Cannabis and the spectrum needs to reflect that for optimal results.
My apologies for the delay in my response. I have been out of town for a few days. Thank you all for your responses. Im very grateful for the time you’ve taken to address my issue. The choosing of LEDs is a complex process. The fluence spydrx plus units and the iluminar il8 are nice lights and we have had a decent return on yield. Our concern is that the yield is still lower than the previous hid units and the end product seems lacking in Trichome ‘‘shine’’. We have sent a few samples of various strains post cure to access thc,cbd etc. The yield can be adjusted with a little more veg and training but a compromise in quality can’t be done. We are considering adding uv to the spydrx to see if that’s where the difference lies. I am currently reading through any and all information i can find on the black dog led and yhe growflux units. As well as a unit new to my attention which is the hashcropter. As much as im enjoying the process of planning and upgrading its incredibly stressful to have so many be able to claim that they have the latest and greatest with so little in independent analysis that one can be certain is a Apple’s to Apple’s assessment.
Got ya … Can’t just go for efficiency. That video is a bit one-sided then.
Regarding spectrum … would it be correct to say that the best spectrum is the one most similar to natural sunlight?
@Black-Dog-LED is right about efficiency because in the end the effectivity is what matters most especially when you consider that the cost of electricity in North Amerika or professional horticulture can be quite low.
Effectivity means that the plant can use as much light as possible. To assure that it is nessecary that the spectrum, the light distribution are well designed and also that all the other environmental parameters are adjusted too in order to allow the plant to use the light properly.
Regarding the spectrum you have to consider that the spectrum of natural sunlight is not fixed! It is dynamically changing during the day, year and also based on the location. One of the important facts in modern plant science is that plants can “read” the spectrum and use that information in order to trigger processes.
The quintessence is
- the biggest advantage of LED lighting is, that it can provide a tunable spectrum… That advantage + efficient and flexible system design should be the baseline for a future-ready solution.
Regarding the similarity to sunlight it is important to know that based on LED technology it is hard to archieve that especially for the green-yellow range of the spectrum. Also UV-B and NIR are to “expensive”.
But of course a “full spectrum” approach, including also green and yellow light is always recommendable. If you want to stick to a fixed spectrum the “right” ratios of the different spectral ranges are most important.
Not necessarily. Some of the light provided by the sun is not as readily utilized as other wavelengths so it makes sense to focus energy in the specific areas science has demonstrated plants are more sensitive. However, this should not mean excluding the other colors in the sun’s spectrum entirely.
By providing the proper colors in the appropriate ratios we can not only avoid wasting our energy, we can also help keep the plant from wasting it’s limited energy on things like stems. For example, I grew under HPS for years like most of us that have been growing Cannabis for a long time indoors. I was always told that the plant stretching was natural in flower or that the HPS bulb was degraded and the plants wasn’t getting enough light. That is patently untrue and in fact the spectrum of HPS will encourage stem elongation (stretching) regardless of how much light you apply. This is plant morphology issue can be corrected with an appropriate spectrum.
You can see our spectrum here in an interactive model: https://www.blackdogled.com/faq_full-spectrum
There is also a lot of other good information available in our FAQ, and this particular section is specifically geared towards this discussion.
Christoph, can you elaborate on this?
I agree that UV-B is not practical yet for an LED grow light due to the longevity of those dies on top of the cost, but NIR does not fall into this category of too expensive and those particular LEDs can be very efficient, unlike green LEDs.
Maybe you have misunderstood me. I have just tried to make clear that copying the sun is possible but not economical… yet
For example we have developed a 24 channel LED fixture from 350 - 1000 nm and we use it
- as a reference setup for our plant research on cannabis
- and also to develop LED fixtures and dynamic lighting recipes
But maybe you are just mixing far red and NIR: Definition of NIR: 750 to 1,400nm
Oh and by the way efficiency does not mean cost-effectivness…
Agreed completely. Even if it was cost effective to reproduce the sun’s spectrum it would not necessarily be the ‘best’ grow light.
Also, agreed on the efficiency not equating to cost-effectiveness. They are two separate issues and both need to be accounted for. We know we pay much more for some of our LEDs, such as UV, but when it comes to finished Cannabis product quality and penetration we have found it is worth every penny for the growers we work with.
Thank you for elaborating.
Black Dog LED
You mentioned BlackDog manufactures the most powerful fixtures with up to 1050 watts.
I don’t know if you have seen them but FOHSE is now making an 1500 watt LED.
My team at American Cannabis is currently in the evaluation phase of these and would welcome any feedback from the group.
Here is a link to their spec sheet: http://www.fohse.com/wp-content/uploads/Spec-sheet.pdf
Looks quite impressing but to many missleading information on the website:
For example: If you have a look on http://www.fohse.com/technology/ Spectrum section, they talk about Ultraviolet and Infrared but the spectrum does not include UV or IR!!!
- the marketing does not talk to the development department, or
- they want to misslead customers, or
- they don’t have a clue
Same with the PPF/D section. They talk about an average PPFD of 2,002 µmol/m²/s… On what area in what distance?
So in the end, to me it looks not quite professional…
Excellent point and well made Christoph…
They may be guilty on all 3 counts!
Thank you very much for your feedback.
Thats why we are here to share our knowledge, thoughts and maybe to connect in order to start some business relations
At the moment we haven’t entered the North american market but we are about to. If you are interested in discussing options of collaboration just DM me.
Indeed, great assessment. I was also curious about growing any plants, Cannabis included, at 2002 PPFD when I saw that. We have tested to the limit of what at least some strains can handle and it is well below 2002 PPFD.
Also, it doesn’t look like the fixture is UL or similarly approved. This would be a problem in many jurisdictions where building code would not allow this to be installed, commercially at least. Home growers could use it but with that wattage draw it would have to be just about the only thing on a 20A 120V circuit.
Lastly, I would be curious if they could show any scientific evidence of the sun changing spectrum as the seasons change as their spectrum graphs imply.
At the end of the day, I agree with Christoph that there is a bit too much misleading marketing there for me to feel comfortable.
Black Dog LED
Hey I appreciate both of your opinions greatly as the lighting category continues to evolve at a rapid pace albeit sometimes without proper R&D…we don’t make lights, just recommend those that we feel are of quality and value. That being said, please continue sharing your thoughts on top LEDs for both vertical indoor warehouse ops and commercial greenhouses, both of which we consult on for concept, design, spec & build out.
At the end of the day, I really don’t care who the manufacture is as long as our client is getting what was sold to them from a performance data perspective. Thanks again and I look forward to future chats.
That seems to be partly correct.
The sun itself is not changing spectrum, but the light that reaches earth does.
The entry level of the light into earth’s atmosphere changes, therefore the Rayleigh scattering breaks the light up differently.
And a lower solar elevation angle will also result in longer path through the ozone layer, and hence stronger absorption at the UV-B wavelength range.
Here’s a calculator capable of showing the differences (I have not tested it) http://cprm.acom.ucar.edu/Models/TUV/Interactive_TUV/