Strange Leaf Discoloration?

Leaves make poor roots. :innocent:

Oy! I know hard water. The bane of a midwestern grower! We resorted to phosphoric acid. Had to adjust the rest of our feed to account for 120 ppm of phosphorus from the phosphoric acid. That was just to get us to a pH of seven with minimal residual buffering.

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How does it work with septic field recovery?

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It’s funny you mention that…not sure as to septic field recovery but I am sure there is a formulation in the archives for that… Do you have a need? I can get you an answer.

Our principals have cultivating microbes for 20 years, first under the name Bio Solutions Franchise Corp. Bio Solutions remediated waste from restaurant grease traps, boasting 42 service locations at its height, ranging from fast food restaurants to some of the swankiest restaurants in the country.

When Hurricane Katrina hit, it took the factory’s roof with it. By the time the factory was operational again, Bio Solutions had lost several customers. Those lost accounts lost combined with accounts they had lost while pushing clients to move from remediation to recycling forced them to rethink their company. Bio Soil Enhancers was born and then that morphed into SumaGrow, which I found when reading Popular Science back in 2009. I reached out, wanting to invest, and also wanted to try it on my MMJ crops…that relationship blossomed and now we have a formulation and company called URB Sciences which is our formulation for the Cannabis plant. Next venture after this, is our “home gardener”, lawn and garden formula, this is why we have the founder and creator of EcoSmart on our board to access the 25,000 retail stores his product is in, assisting us to take our technology to that market. We also have john greenberg of http://www.goodmind.com/ to help us along the way on the more “main stream” side of the house.

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We have a septic system in northern Minnesota! How could we not expect problems.

No things are running smoothly pump the tank annually and don’t let lint into the system. Big problem with plugging of the pore spaces in lateral fields with small particles. Only approved solution by the state is cold fracture of the field or new field. Ounce of prevention.

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we don’t use soil, eliminating all soil born problems.

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Well that is definitley one way to handle it. Nice tomatoes. Legalize tomatoes! …as I once saw on a shirt somewhere :wink:

I see that you offer some nice state of the art Ebb and Flow systems. Even in those brother, I welcome you to give us a shot. Check out this post to read about a reputable organization utilizing a similar system showing results hydroponically after 4 short weeks in flower. He has 6 100 gallon tanks feeding each tray of about 24 plants. A small 1200 sq. ft grow under LED’s and in recycled glass. 3rd Party Results

Maybe we could work something out and include a grow cycle’s worth of URB in your packages.

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That’s from Growers House :slight_smile:
https://growershouse.com/growers-house-legalize-tomatoes-t-shirt-charcoal

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Ah yes!! Thanks Nicholas for noticing. Top notch organization. Hope to be carried in their lineup one day

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The treatment so far has been to trim away the discolored leaves and flush the soil as much as possible. I tested for dissolved mineral on the surface where the manure was spread and the results were 700-800 ppm. I don’t think the original PPM would have been off the charts with these results but I plan to acquire some more for testing.

I will do a ph soil test tomorrow surface and root ball.

another factor I will test is the well water. We use it unconditioned but have tested it many time in the past and it rarely vary from 6.2 to 6.8. It was so consistent we have become lax.

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These things happen brother! :relaxed: Good thing you were on it and caught it
early. Looks like a nice farm. Keep up the good work.

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How aged was the manure?
Your growing in Soil? Or soilless?
If soil what type?
My guess if soil or soiless you and you used manure, you have a simple problem with calcium. If you are using soil Pelletized Dolomitic Lime at the label will correct the problem. If you are soilless, a high calcium fertilizer.

Since you sound like your trying to grow organic there are a number of soluble organic fertilizers. Look for one that labels as a fertilizer and not plant food. A fertilizer requires a specialty label mandated by the government. You will know NPK in what ratio and the trace elements. You will also know the type of nitrogen used. I would look for a fertilizer that the source is calcium nitrate.

My guess is soil temperatures have been low? This is causing the conversion of the nitrogen in the manure to change more slowly to a plant usable forms. As the change occurs, carbon gets tied up in the process. In soil this generally means all calcium and magnesium gets tied up as the organics breakdown. As a test you can simple apply some epsum salts to a plant in solution. Look at the plant after 24 hours and see if you see markedly greener leaves. It will be dramatic if you have either a calcium or magnesium deficiency. It is only a parcel solution to a bigger issue.

Send more pictures.

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I would suggest looking towards (as some have already mentioned) sodium coupled with high ammonium content of manure - both of these can cause Ca, Mg, and/or K (as well as any nutrient taken in cationic form) deficiencies because of their single positive charge. You could be missing an appropriate amount of nitrifying bacteria, meaning your N is more ammonium/less nitrate.

EC (TDS is derived from EC) is unfortunately thrown off in soil situations by living organisms (as is pH to a lesser degree). Take both of these measurements of course, but be careful to act on them as this can be a slippery slope if you over-correct or guess wrong. Too much or not enough moisture can be a culprit as well.

Try top dressing with diverse ecology like quality worm castings and/or compost. And/or leachate from either/both. Suspecting Ca as the main culprit (I concur with this), add some oyster shell flour. It’s good stuff! If you try a CaMg chemical product for immediacy, let me know how it turns out!

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Cody, Thanks for your advise. I am at the point of using a liquid fertilizer to speed up the recovery. The plants are in a field that is nothing but clay so I essentially dug out a huge flower box (trench) in the ground and filled it in with potting. We have had some very hot days lately to excess moisture is unlikely.
.

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This is the same farm only with plants in 5 gal planters. I just noticed this odd colorization on the tops of the plants ! it happened over a few days. I don’t know if it is related to the other discoloration or not? I am leaning toward the watering system.

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From the pictures this looks like the issue. Maybe too cool for bacteria without some extra sugar. You are tying up the carbon on decomposition of the manure, sucking up nitrate and calcium up. You see this in field hops if the mulch is too green. They tend to use composted hard wood bark. If they use soft wood they have big problems.

Let me find pictures.

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@milessadowsky Have you seen discoloration like this?

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Again,

Quick fix brother, I have seen it work for these same problems 20 times over. Get us your address and we will have a package on its way to treat your plants. Not asking for anything, if you notice a significant change in your plants within 48 hours…maybe shout us out?

Here is a Repost…
Features/benefits of our microbial formulation

  1. Biological Nitrogen fixation- Ninety five to ninety nine percent of nitrogen in the soil is in an organic form that is not available for uptake by plants. And although 78% of the earth’s atmosphere is nitrogen, it also is mostly unavailable for plant use. However, Mother Nature has a solution… microbes. Microbes play an important part in the nitrogen cycle. URB’s microbial formulation unlocks bound soil nitrogen and absorbs nitrogen from the air for optimum plant growth and development.

  2. Phosphate Solubilization- Often, phosphate is present in a bound form unavailable to plants. URB’s microbial formulation solubilizes the bound phosphate and makes it available to the plant in a useable form. Phosphate is involved in photosynthesis, respiration, energy storage and transfer, cell division, and enlargement. Phosphate:
    • Promotes early root formation and growth
    • Improves quality (BRIX value) of Cannabis
    • Vital to seed formation
    • Helps plants survive harsh conditions
    • Increases water-use efficiency

  3. Mobilization and Mineralization of Available Plant Nutrients - It is not enough that a soil contains an element. What matters is its availability to plants. Mobilizing and mineralizing soil nutrients, such as bound Phosphate, Magnesium, and Calcium into a form that is available for plant uptake is a vital role of the microorganisms contained in our products
    • Other Nitrogen fixing bacteria that live in the soil continue the conversion into
    ammonium (NH4+, a form plants can use)
    • Nitrifying bacteria convert ammonium into NO2 then to NO3, NO3 is also a form that plants can uptake
    • Various decomposers (including bacteria and fungi) breakdown organic forms of nitrogen into ammonium, where then the nitrifying bacteria can continue that conversion into NO3

  4. Phytohormone Production- Phytohormones are plant growth regulators and makes the appropriate nutrients available during different growth stages. For example, at the time of flowering a plant will have increased nitrogen needs. URB’s formulation of microbes are vital in providing the plant with the necessary means of absorbing the appropriate amounts of nutrients it needs at the stage it needs them.
    This gives crops treated with our products the opportunity to reach optimum growth and yield.

  5. Act as Biological Control Agents-The URB formulation inhibits plant pathogens and enhances the plant’s natural defense mechanisms. This bio-control function is comprised predominately of Trichoderma strains. They generally grow on the root surface and are effective against root disease in particular, but can also be effective against foliar diseases. URB also increases the plant’s resistance against pests. Pests recognize the higher sugar content of URB treated plants and forages and because most pests lack a liver and cannot digest high concentrations of amino acids, this makes the plants an unattractive nutrient source

Additionally, our products have a saprophytic competence in the soil. Saprophytic competency of microbes in the formulation is one of the major challenges to the practical utilization of improved commercial inoculants’ competitiveness and persistence in the soil against less efficient native strains. Test results show that URB products have a highly competent on in soil. It captures additional water and available nutrients from naturally occurring organic matter in the soil for the plant’s use. This enables plants to better sustain adverse environmental conditions such as variations in soil pH and moisture issues.

URB also promotes a healthy soil pH. Soil pH has strong effects on the availability of most nutrients. This is because pH affects both the chemical forms and solubility of nutrient elements. The ideal soil pH for many crops is slightly acid, between about 5.8 and 7.0, because in that range there is well balanced availability for all nutrients. This pH range also promotes an active and diverse soil microbial population and is a healthy range for earthworms and other soil organisms. It has been shown that acid tolerant bacterial strains can more readily generate a pH gradient when grown in acid conditions and can subsequently maintain a more constant internal pH.

URB’s microbial formulation is suspended in a 12% humic acid carrier, stabilized at a balance pH of 7.0, which allows it to effectively work in varied climates and soil conditions. These humates act as a carbon food source for the microbial formulation, are high in organic matter and contain micronutrients, such as calcium, magnesium, zinc and manganese. Our products have been extensively tested in university greenhouses, field trials, replicated crop trials and specialized testing facilities. We do not know of a single product currently on the market that has a consortium of microbes with verified functional properties that give marked growth enhancement of such a truly broad spectrum of crops. The sustainability of our products creates a healthy, nutrient rich plant. For organic production, OMRI listing is coming soon. URB can increase crop yields, improve stress and drought resistance, reduce fertilizer dependence, and increase the percentages of desirable cannabinoids of your crop.

“Pesticide” is a general term which can further segmented into insecticides, fungicides and herbicides. URB Sciences estimates the reduction in insecticides to be approximately 90%. Generally speaking, insects prey on weak plants and URB grown plants are much stronger than conventionally grown plants as evidenced by higher brix, chlorophyll and protein levels.

In addition to healthier plants having fewer disease/insect issues, there are two other modes of action URB products have against insects – higher brix levels and quorum sensing. The higher brix levels (natural sugars) we have documented in a number of crops are the plants’ natural protection system. Insects don’t have livers to digest sugars so the sugars stay in the insects’ stomachs, ferments and kills them. Low brix levels are signs of less-than-healthy plants so having insects kill the less-than-healthy plants is Mother Nature’s way of promoting the survival of the fittest.

As an aside, insects are attracted to free nitrogen ions. Most fertilizers consist of, or break down into, free nitrogen ions.

Microbes produce an electromagnetic frequency; the more microbes, the stronger the signal, known as “quorum sensing.” In layman’s terms, this signal basically tells insects to stay away. Obviously, URB increases the number of microbes and hence, the strength of the electromagnetic signal.

URB estimates a 50% reduction in fungicides due to the natural bio-pesticides included in the formulation.

Getting more technical, the bio-pesticide (bio-control) function is comprised predominately by Trichoderma strains. Strains of Trichoderma are included in URB as bio-pesticide agents against fungal diseases of plants, especially powdery mildew. The various direct inhibition mechanisms against plant pathogens include antibiosis, mycoparasitism, inducing host-plant resistance to stress through enhanced root and plant development, solubilization and sequestration of inorganic nutrients, inactivation of the pathogen’s enzymes, and competition for nutrients or space. The bio-pesticides generally grow in their natural habitat on the root surface, and so affect root disease in particular, but can also be effective against foliar diseases. This is one reason why we recommend foliar application in veg, we have a high quality fulvic acid with great trans-membrane abilities, allowing these bio pesticides to be in full force on the leaves of Cannabis as well as the rhizosphere. Once the bio-pesticides come into contact with roots, they colonize the root surface or cortex, depending on the strain. The best strains will colonize root surfaces even when roots grow three feet below the soil surface. In addition to colonizing roots, Trichoderma attack, parasitize and otherwise gain nutrition from other fungi. Since Trichoderma grow and proliferate best when there are abundant healthy roots, they have evolved numerous mechanisms for both attack of other fungi, and for enhancing plant and root growth.

Different strains of Trichoderma control every pathogenic fungus for which control has been sought. However, most Trichoderma strains are more efficient for control of some pathogens than others. The recent discovery in several labs that some strains induce plants to “turn on” their native defense mechanisms offers the likelihood that these strains also will control pathogens other than fungi.
Because bio-pesticides contain multiple modes of action, they are well suited for rotation in pest management programs. For example, a bio-pesticide may create holes in the gut of the pest (fermented sugars), whereas conventional pesticides are often neurotoxins.

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Cody, what is the temperature range for the product? Do you have to increase application amounts at lower temps? What is the optimal temperature for your products in the container and ground?

We would use a flash heater for irrigation water to limit temperature swings in our medium. We found with predator nematodes this made all the difference between contol and no control. Amazing what a few degrees can do to predator nematodes.

Thanks in advance.

I do want to try your products, when we grow some indoor basil and herbs this winter. We are going to setup an organic CLF system in the laundry area. Just trying to finish the light calculation for PAR at soil height for some LED strips. Plus, trying to decide if I am going to use my heat mat. I will have to change out the controller, it’s analog. I am thinking of using a Raspberry Pie as the controller. For the kit and kabutal :joy:

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Wow. Looks like they’ve been in total darkness for several days.

Step 1, always check & correct ph first thing. Always…

Lockout has to be at least playing a role there :wink:

My well water can swing from 6.8-7.0 in spring, to lower/mid 8’s end of summer.

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Read through the whole discussion please. I asked pH first.

Wow, your well is mid 8 pH in the summer! How much buffering? Calcium or Magnesium as the source? Or one of the even less desirables?

From the voices in my head
Ethan

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